7 Secrets to a Ride or Die Friendship

Today's Episode

In this engaging conversation, Terri Kellums and Jennifer Grossi explore the complexities of adult friendships, discussing how they evolve over time, the importance of vulnerability, and the dynamics of building a supportive community. They share personal anecdotes, insights from friendship statistics, and the significance of emotional bank accounts in maintaining strong relationships. The discussion highlights the challenges of making new friends as adults and the value of both in-person and online connections. In this conversation, Terri Kellums and Jennifer Grossi explore the significance of friendships, particularly the concept of 'ride or die' friendships. They discuss the importance of having close friends who can challenge you, support you, and provide a safe space for vulnerability. The conversation delves into the seven actions that can help build strong friendships, emphasizing the need for freedom, no judgment, great listening skills, trust, vulnerability, and respect. They also share personal anecdotes and insights on how to navigate friendships in different life stages.


Chapters

00:00 Introduction to the Podcast Journey
02:02 Childhood Friendships: A Nostalgic Reflection
07:51 The Evolution of Adult Friendships
10:41 Building a Community: The Importance of Connection
14:30 Navigating Changes in Friendships
18:38 Emotional Bank Accounts in Relationships
22:17 Navigating New Friendships
26:29 Building Connections in Midlife
32:29 The Importance of Authenticity
38:13 Understanding Friendship Dynamics
47:18 Identifying Red Flags in Friendships
50:29 Building Ride or Die Friendships
52:13 The Importance of No Judgment
54:51 Listening and Curiosity in Friendships
59:58 Trust and Vulnerability
01:03:58 Respect as a Core Value

Transcript

Terri Kellums (00:00.974)
Hello!

Jennifer Grossi (00:01.725)
Hi.

Terri Kellums (00:04.431)
I'm so excited to be here with you today, starting this new podcast.

Jennifer Grossi (00:06.706)
Me too. It's been a long time coming. We've been working on this for months and nobody knows it.

Terri Kellums (00:12.332)
I know it's been like this big secret, right? How many months? It's been at least two months.

Jennifer Grossi (00:14.534)
It's like a big. February, March, April. Yeah, yeah, we've been doing this for.

Terri Kellums (00:19.406)
Alright, well Jennifer do you remember how easy it was in like kindergarten to make friends? when you would literally just go up to somebody and say do you want to be my friend?

Jennifer Grossi (00:28.308)
No, you know what's funny about that is that I actually did not have that personality back then. Can you believe that? Because I am such a person, like a people person now, but no, I was not, I was always shy. Like, were you, were you like that person?

Terri Kellums (00:46.167)
I was that person. was like, do you want to be my friend. And then they would be like, yeah. And I grabbed their hand and we'd run off to the swings together and we just play and be friends. In fact, you weren't that girl. In fifth grade, I switched schools and I lived in the same town, but I moved to the other side of town and I had to go to a new school. And there was another Terri in the class and one of us approached the other. I can't remember anymore. And she's, I think it was her approaching me and she's like, well, my name's Terri too.

Jennifer Grossi (00:48.148)
and

Jennifer Grossi (00:54.311)
Yeah, no, I was not that girl. No.

Terri Kellums (01:14.689)
And so from then on, I always called her Terri number two. I was Terri number one, she was Terri number two. And we just, yeah.

Jennifer Grossi (01:20.485)
I find that interesting because I was a Jennifer in every class too. There was always a Jen, a Jenny, a Jennifer, and whichever order you came in, you kind of got the Jenny name. And I ended up getting the Jenny name at one point in high school. I actually know where people are from if they call me and they say, hey, I'm looking for Jenny. I'm like, you've got to be from high school. That's it. There's no other. Don't call me Jenny otherwise.

Terri Kellums (01:41.749)
to my husband, your Florida Jennifer because we have a Jennifer that lives here. So your Florida Jennifer.

Jennifer Grossi (01:44.691)
That's okay because Stephen says to me all the time. Which Terri and a go Terri podcaster.

Terri Kellums (01:52.268)
I think you have turned in, you've morphed a little bit into podcast, Jennifer, but you're mostly. Well, you know what? Like things have gotten more complicated as we've gotten older. Um, we're to talk about friendships today. It's not as easy as it once was, but before we jump in, I have a little game I want to play with you. All right. So this deck, um, it's called WTF. So these questions can be a little crazy. Pick, pick a number.

Jennifer Grossi (01:55.825)
Now I'm working on it.

Jennifer Grossi (02:02.609)
Mm-hmm.

Jennifer Grossi (02:09.617)
Okay, I'm in, I'm in. I love a game.

Jennifer Grossi (02:20.442)
Okay, I'm picking seven, seven, seven, good number.

Terri Kellums (02:21.238)
Pick a number, any number one through seven.

Terri Kellums (02:28.341)
Number seven, who is the most famous person you've ever met?

Jennifer Grossi (02:34.327)
I have met a few people and I also say I'm not a star-struck person. I could I could I don't need an autograph. I don't need any of it. But do you remember? Okay, this one's weird. This is weird. The first one that I ever met was Mr. T Yeah, do you remember that the a team I was I was like not a huge a team fan, but everybody knew Mr. T was Mr. T had all the gold

Terri Kellums (02:39.825)
I'm not either. I'm really not.

Yeah.

Terri Kellums (02:52.562)
No way!

do remember.

Jennifer Grossi (03:00.922)
and his ears and around his neck, et cetera. And then we found out in our town, Mr. T and the A team was actually coming to our town to do some recording, like they were watching some movie. So we all went out there to see what we could see and sure enough, he comes out. You cannot even imagine how short that man was. Like, my gosh, I stood behind him and I'm like, this is Mr. T, he's so strong and big and muscular and he's the badass of the crew.

Terri Kellums (03:21.34)
Really?

Jennifer Grossi (03:30.546)
but he was so small and I was like, this is weird. But I mean, I was a teenager. And then the other person that I met that my husband says I gawked at, but I didn't, I just didn't. What do I need to tell you? Was Joe Montana from the 49ers because he's like the all time greatest, I'm sorry to everybody else who thinks they've got somebody, the all time greatest quarterback. So to me, I was like, oh, this is neat. Steven's having a conversation with him, you know. But again, I'm not starstruck. How about you, have you met somebody?

Terri Kellums (03:59.689)
I'm not starstruck. So do you remember the Jenny Jones show back in the day?

Jennifer Grossi (04:02.866)
my gosh, yes. Wow, we are pulling some oldies.

Terri Kellums (04:07.709)
So I went to see her show in person with a girlfriend and whatever the topic was, so they planned it all, you it's very staged. And we went to the show and they said, they beforehand, like you're sitting in this audience and they say, has anybody ever, and then they ask a question, like whatever their topic is about that day, like if you have any sort of input you might be able to add to the story or whatever, you know, they want you to sit in strategic places so that you can

Jennifer Grossi (04:09.745)
Okay.

Jennifer Grossi (04:15.634)
You went to the show. Oh my God.

Terri Kellums (04:37.0)
They can come and just stand next to you and ask you the question. So whatever the question was that day, and gosh, if I can remember what it was, but whatever the question was, that happened to me in my life. And so I raised my hand and they moved me and my girlfriend to these special seats and they told me, at this part of the conversation, Jenny will come over and she'll stand next to you and she'll say this and then you'll know that's your time to stand up and speak. No, seriously.

Jennifer Grossi (04:37.677)
Yes, you can answer the question.

Jennifer Grossi (05:03.281)
Stop it. Do you have that clip?

Terri Kellums (05:06.415)
And so it all happened just as they said they would. And the closer that I got time to do it, I knew I wouldn't do it. I knew I was too scared to do it. So she comes and stands next to me and I just totally chicken out. But you know what the funniest thing was is I can kind of remember what she looked like, like blonde, attractive, nice teeth. I can kind of remember all that.

Jennifer Grossi (05:15.224)
No, no, no, but you're in the special seat.

Jennifer Grossi (05:30.254)
Yeah. Yeah.

Terri Kellums (05:33.767)
On TV, she looked a little heavier. person, she looked very, very thin and her clothes seemed a little big on her.

Jennifer Grossi (05:41.157)
They say, what do they tell you? That like it adds 10 pounds, right? I'm like, I'm just praying that the 10 pounds definitely shows when I'm in person.

Terri Kellums (05:42.892)
The camera puts on 10 pounds, yeah.

Terri Kellums (05:51.654)
But my other claim to fame is this, and this is really very, very cool. I will be forever known as the cool girl after this on our show. The year of my graduation, 1987, Bon Jovi, the band, was to play in a town about 20 miles away, well, where our mutual friend lives. The band was set to play in that particular town.

Jennifer Grossi (06:00.935)
my god, really? Okay, all right.

Terri Kellums (06:21.961)
And your friend Joelle and my friend Amanda live in Rockford. Yeah. So, so Bon Jovi was going to play in Rockford and it just happened to be that they put the concert on the same night as our high school graduation. And so all these kids that wanted to go to the show couldn't go to the show because this concert was happening at the same time. So, so our school moved our graduation time. So to accommodate all the kids being able to go to the concert. Well, somehow.

Jennifer Grossi (06:27.304)
you mean our BFFs.

Jennifer Grossi (06:49.594)
Wow.

Terri Kellums (06:52.041)
the band found out about it and our group went down there. The details are kind of like scattering now, but I feel like they went down there with our high school jerseys, like our football jerseys with our school name on them. And they got with the band and the band all came to our high school graduation with our jerseys on.

Jennifer Grossi (07:07.704)
Okay.

Jennifer Grossi (07:14.673)
Stop it! Bon Jovi's at your graduation?

Terri Kellums (07:19.414)
Yes, and there's actually a video on MTV that they did after that where they were still wearing, they were wearing our jerseys in the video. Yes way. No, no, no. But I mean, like how cool is that, right?

Jennifer Grossi (07:27.266)
No way. you, okay, were you in that? Were you in that video? That's a bummer because that would have been really cool too. I mean, anything Bon Jovi back then. That was so cool. You are. Okay. You are the cool one. You are fully the cool one. I didn't know you were that cool and we've known each other for a while.

Terri Kellums (07:48.633)
Well, I gotta tell you my things in little bits and pieces or I might run out some day.

Jennifer Grossi (07:53.218)
No, for real, I know we will not, we will not run out. We've come to discover we will not run out. Which, you know, but this is kind of an interesting, you know, when we came to do this conversation, we were talking about how friendships are so like developed much more differently than when we were little kids, right? And you were talking about, you know, the fact that we are, you know, the interesting part is the way that we did this, this is all gonna be part of the story today because we've really kind of honed in on.

Terri Kellums (07:58.531)
Let's do it.

Terri Kellums (08:10.893)
This is...

Jennifer Grossi (08:21.059)
What the hell are we doing here? Why did we choose to do this? And what's this all about kind of a thing. But what I find kind of interesting is that you said something to me really, really early in February. You said, I want a community. I want to build a community. And that part right there resonated so strongly with me because we have figured out over the, well, we've now known each other for over four years, which we can't believe, but four years of being friends.

Terri Kellums (08:34.114)
Yes.

Terri Kellums (08:45.002)
Yeah. Crazy.

Jennifer Grossi (08:51.287)
And now we're about to embarking on something where we're gonna get a lot more friends because that's one of the reasons why we're here. And one of the most difficult pieces, you had brought this up to me, it's this morning actually, was we had talked a little bit about sex in the city and how people tend to think that that's the, like this is the normal friendship, if you've ever seen it, yeah, you have a circle of friends, maybe in their case they had three friends each, four of them together.

Terri Kellums (08:54.924)
Yeah.

Terri Kellums (09:10.228)
Yeah, that's what friendship looks like. Yeah.

Terri Kellums (09:18.41)
Mm-hmm.

Jennifer Grossi (09:19.148)
not at all how it looks for most of us.

Terri Kellums (09:21.865)
Right, let's play this video.

Jennifer Grossi (09:24.249)
Yeah.

Jennifer Grossi (10:02.339)
can't hear it.

Terri Kellums (10:04.733)
I can't either.

Jennifer Grossi (10:06.508)
You have the coolest bird outside your house.

Terri Kellums (10:09.631)
Very cool. Okay, why can't we hear it?

Okay, we're just gonna keep going and I will just insert it at this part. So let me stop shooting.

Jennifer Grossi (10:19.32)
Yep, right in.

Wait, I have to play it for myself to have a leap off point. Because I have to remember exactly how it went.

Terri Kellums (10:26.152)
Okay.

Jennifer Grossi (10:56.235)
Okay.

Terri Kellums (10:59.775)
Am I still sharing my screen? I don't think I am.

Jennifer Grossi (11:02.028)
No you're not.

Terri Kellums (11:04.863)
Okay, so yeah, so that's the friendship that every woman like after watching Sex in City, which I will admit I did not watch Sex in the City and I know you've told me I probably should go back and watch it. Yeah. Yeah.

Jennifer Grossi (11:14.657)
They were my super, they were like my friends. They were my friends. I thought they were my friends. I know that's delusional, but still I thought they were.

Terri Kellums (11:21.353)
But that's not really what life is like. That's not what friendship... I mean, I think there are rare glimpses of that. I don't think like, I think it was probably great creative writing. You tell me. I mean, I didn't like, obviously didn't see the show.

Jennifer Grossi (11:31.68)
Right?

It was totally good writing because we all want that fantasy of knowing that we have a support system that's made up of a number of people. you and I were actually, we were talking about how, well, we can go back for a second and just say, I think that when we found each other, we had no idea that we were going to develop actually that kind of friendship where we were like, no judgment. I don't want to judge you. I have no interest in that. And I'm here just to hear you. I want to give.

input in your life if you want me to. And that was such an appealing thing that it kind of is the reason why this whole topic is important to me and you because we realized that we have a ride or die friendship. Like I will be there if you call me at midnight, I'd be there for you. And I know that I could count on you for the exact same thing. I also know that if I tell you something weird, you're going to be like.

Terri Kellums (12:06.737)
Yeah.

Terri Kellums (12:16.007)
Mm-hmm.

Terri Kellums (12:19.654)
Mm-hmm.

Terri Kellums (12:23.153)
Yeah.

for

Jennifer Grossi (12:28.438)
I'm not judging you. I might haven't thought about it. But if I do judge you, it's just based on the fact that I want to tell you maybe you should consider something else. But that would be it. Like there's no,

Terri Kellums (12:39.357)
But how many chances do you think you get at that kind of friendship in life? mean, have you always had at least one ride or die friendship in your life? Like if you look back, you know, over the years?

Jennifer Grossi (12:48.735)
Nope. Nope. No. I can remember many years where there was no friends like that. But I can also say that I've been blessed enough to get a number of women, not that every single one has stayed in my life, which has that happened to you? you, they come in and then they're there for a season and then they off, you know, there's now another girl that shows up in your life or maybe they overlap in some way.

Terri Kellums (12:55.686)
Yeah.

Terri Kellums (13:12.486)
Yeah, definitely. mean, I was thinking about it this morning as I'm getting ready to sit down and talk with you today. I was thinking about the most meaningful friendships in my life over the years. They have changed, they've evolved. And if you think back to your childbearing years when you were raising your little ones, I could think of that friend and I can't imagine going through that part of my life without her. She was such a

Jennifer Grossi (13:41.291)
Right.

Terri Kellums (13:42.095)
big part of my life and yet I'm not the person who I was when we were friends. So for us to be that close now, I'm not really sure that would happen. I think we've both grown in different ways. so although I will always have such fond memories of her and I would still if she called me up at midnight and I saw her name on the caller ID, I would definitely answer, you know, but mostly just out of loyalty, not out of some

Jennifer Grossi (13:53.74)
Yeah

Jennifer Grossi (14:05.383)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Terri Kellums (14:11.076)
current state of, you know, like, you know what, she needs me. Like, it just be out of loyalty and curiosity probably too, but we haven't talked in many, many years. But I love her. I definitely. Other friendships I'd say that I felt that close of a connection and bond with, they just kind of fizzled out for whatever reason. mean, different reasons, but I think, you know, we're always constantly growing and evolving.

Jennifer Grossi (14:17.258)
Right.

Yeah.

Jennifer Grossi (14:23.283)
Yeah. Yeah.

Terri Kellums (14:40.478)
humans. I mean, I think that's the way we were designed. And sometimes you grow together and sometimes you don't. And when you don't grow together, they were just through.

Jennifer Grossi (14:48.032)
That's exactly true. Plus when you get married or separated, divorced, which I have been through, you have been through, you do evolve in other friendships too because some people don't come along for that ride and that's okay.

Terri Kellums (14:54.572)
Mm-hmm, I've been through.

Terri Kellums (14:59.886)
Right. Well, and you brought me here, I will say that, you know, I met my current husband when I was in my early 40s and he's my best friend now. Like he is my ultimate best friend on a whole different level than a girlfriend friendship. He sees me at my worst, sees me at my best, you know, what my heart is like and

Jennifer Grossi (15:14.346)
I agree with you.

Jennifer Grossi (15:28.095)
Yeah.

Terri Kellums (15:28.673)
supports me and it's a very different kind of friendship, but at the end of the day, like I can say, you know, I'm on my third marriage. Let's just get that out there for the world to know. I can honestly say that it's okay. It's okay. Yeah. I can honestly tell you that I, yes, I would honestly say that I would never

Jennifer Grossi (15:41.067)
It's okay. I have to say I'm on my second. We're racking them up right now. That's all we're doing. We live and learn by the way too.

Terri Kellums (15:52.584)
sitting here and saying the other two are my best friend. So I don't know if that's just because of the point of life that we met that I would say he's my best friend or just that's what our life is. We count on each other so much. Yeah, so he's my best friend. He is definitely my best friend. Now it is a very different type of friendship from the woman I call my soul sister.

Jennifer Grossi (16:18.494)
Mm-hmm.

Terri Kellums (16:19.319)
So I don't have sex in the city, but I have Grey's Anatomy. So I have Meredith and Christina. So that's my example. So my friend Amanda, who did the other podcast with me, she's my Christina. We have done some crazy shit together. And I just actually just told her the other day, said, we went to

Jennifer Grossi (16:24.218)
yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember this.

Jennifer Grossi (16:34.665)
Yeah.

Jennifer Grossi (16:39.967)
Yeah.

Terri Kellums (16:46.559)
Utila Honduras, La Bay Island off of Honduras and they joined us for the second week of our vacation and there were some bumps during our trip and you know, I was talking to that day and I was just like, yeah, I wasn't there were a couple of times I wasn't my best, but I don't as when I was a younger version of myself I would have fretted over that a lot and been like, my gosh, I hope she's not mad or you know, whatever and now I'm just like no, she's not gonna be mad. Like she may not she may have wished that part of our trip didn't happen.

Jennifer Grossi (17:09.279)
Yeah.

Terri Kellums (17:16.106)
But, okay, here's an example of something I said to her. Did not mean it to be hurtful. But when you have this kind of relationship with someone, you get to make some withdrawals out of that emotional bank account without overdrawing your account. You know what I mean?

Jennifer Grossi (17:31.794)
Ooh, that's a good way to say that.

Terri Kellums (17:33.747)
Yeah, so we were talking about like way back when when we very first met, we met through another girlfriend, a mutual friend. I worked with her. Amanda had grown up with her, was friends with her in high school. We both belonged to this book club and Amanda was married to a different man then. I was married to a different man then. We were just kind of reminiscing about that time in our lives. And I go, damn, you were really hot back then. And she was like she had a beautiful like

Jennifer Grossi (18:01.898)
It's the word were.

Terri Kellums (18:03.093)
curvy shape. Like it was the word were and I didn't even it didn't even like dawn on me that I said you were hot. Like I have this picture in my head the first time she ever met my current husband. We're at this bowling alley and there's this picture of me and her and another one of our friends and I was frumpy. I was super frumpy at that point in my life and she was smoking hot and that's all I could think about was that picture where she looks so so smoking hot and I look so frumpy and

Jennifer Grossi (18:13.769)
Right.

Jennifer Grossi (18:26.4)
my gosh.

Terri Kellums (18:33.417)
So that was what was going through my head. And the next day she says to me, you know, yesterday you, and she repeated the conversation, a little bit of the conversation and she brought that up and I was like, my God. I'm like, what a dickhead I am. I can't believe I said that. And she goes, no, she goes, at first my feelings were a little hurt. And then she goes, and then I thought, but it's true. Like we're, we're not who we were. That was 20 years ago.

Jennifer Grossi (18:46.259)
Right, right.

Jennifer Grossi (18:59.017)
Mm.

Jennifer Grossi (19:02.398)
man, flies. But yes, that's true. I think you're right when you say you can take, how did you put that? You can take something out of the emotional, what was it?

Terri Kellums (19:10.216)
You can make a withdrawal of your emotional bank account without being overdrawn because when you are in relationship with someone where you are making regular deposits and those can look like, you know, like understanding what their love language is, for example, and feeding that, like my husband's is acts of service. So, you know, every day when I make his burrito or he comes home from work and we call it a special drink, when I make him a special drink without him having to ask or...

when he goes in his drawer to get dressed every day and there's clean clothes. Like those are all deposits into his emotional bank account because I know what it is he needs from me. And so I'm giving that. Or, you know, it's when your girlfriend calls you and she's celebrating something fabulous that happened and you know all the right things to say. You know, you're just, I'm so proud of you. Oh my gosh, you rock, you're a rock star. Like because she needs to hear those words and you're giving them to her.

Jennifer Grossi (19:42.803)
Okay.

Right? Okay.

Jennifer Grossi (19:57.203)
Right? Yeah.

Jennifer Grossi (20:01.875)
Yeah.

Terri Kellums (20:05.341)
you had deposited so much into her or his emotional bank account that if once in a while you say something really stupid and you make a withdrawal, you're not overdrawn.

Jennifer Grossi (20:13.415)
Yeah, it's a brilliant way to say that you've built a trust. And that part alone, like, you know, their heart is the best heart ever. So one of the things that you and I have in common is weird. We have a bunch. We have a bunch. And we've discovered that over the years, like weird things. One of those weird things is we both have a best friend who lives in a small town in the middle of Illinois. And we were like, what are you talking about? What do mean that she lives in this little town? What?

Terri Kellums (20:19.614)
yeah. Yeah. You.

Terri Kellums (20:24.463)
Absolutely.

Terri Kellums (20:34.428)
Mm-hmm.

Yes.

Terri Kellums (20:42.918)
Yeah, right?

Jennifer Grossi (20:43.368)
And so because of that, were like, okay, that's weird. And then we bumped into a number of other ones, including this Honduras, Utila Island that you just went to, which is, it just happens that I was there for my high school class building a school down there. is, it blew my mind. It's so tiny. It's on the map. can barely, you'd have to zoom in so hard on Google Earth to find it. What in the world are you talking about? And then you go and you're like, I want to build a house here. I find it fascinating. But I do think that, you know, we were so

Terri Kellums (20:50.224)
Yeah.

Terri Kellums (21:00.357)
Right.

Yes.

Terri Kellums (21:07.844)
Yeah. Yeah.

Jennifer Grossi (21:11.995)
So we were talking about one of the things that we need in order to get one of these ride or die girlfriends. And we both have them in our BFFs, but we have discovered as well that you and I have built a strong friendship where, and we figured it out. So the first things that we were talking about was like the qualities that somebody would need in a friendship. I mean, there has to be chemistry. Let's just be honest. And not every girl that bumps into your life is gonna have that with you.

Terri Kellums (21:31.482)
right.

Terri Kellums (21:35.14)
for sure. For sure.

No, no, my husband tried to set me up. He tried to set me up on a blind date. Yeah. And, and I have resisted because I have learned that, I think as we get a little older, we become a lot more,

Jennifer Grossi (21:43.818)
Is she really gonna like a hot date for a girlfriend?

Terri Kellums (21:58.745)
picky, know, picky about how we discerning is the word I'm looking for, discerning about how we, we only have so many hours in a day. Like we were so much wiser now. We're like, we only have so many hours in a day. We want to use those hours wisely. and to, and you've told me a couple of your stories of, you know, making, trying to make new friends in, in Florida where you live now and you know, they haven't ended the way that you thought they would. sometimes that's a good thing and sometimes it's not, but

Jennifer Grossi (22:02.448)
Yeah, discerning is, yeah, great way.

Jennifer Grossi (22:23.494)
Yes, not at all. Yes, yes.

Terri Kellums (22:27.183)
You know, you meet up with people. So years ago, my daughter was going to this charter school out in Fountain Hills, Arizona, tiny little town on the northeast side of like Phoenix area. And we go, we go to drop her, I go to drop her off that morning before school. And they had this thing that they did where they would stand out and say the Pledge of Allegiance. Well, I met this woman. I was in my work outfit. You know, she was, I don't remember. And she, she like,

talk to me first. And she, you know, she just approached me and made some kind of conversation. We both realized we were from the Midwest and we were both bringing our daughters to this brand new school. We had just both moved there and we just like, we had so many things that we connected on right away, found out we both love Starbucks. We both loved wine and it was just instant. Like there was no doubt that we were going to be friends and we were and we had the most fabulous friendship for a short season of our life, you know.

But you don't always, I mean, you don't always have that happen. You can meet somebody and think you have it and then meet for that Starbucks coffee that you both really wanted to do so badly. And then the conversation doesn't flow. It's awkward. And you're just like, this is like one of the worst dates I've ever had.

Jennifer Grossi (23:27.142)
No.

Yeah.

Jennifer Grossi (23:37.051)
Yeah. Personal experience.

Jennifer Grossi (23:43.632)
No, it's so true. It's so true. Because a girlfriend coffee can be like a date. It is. I mean, you correlated that with your husband's trying to set you up. But at the same time, I kind of feel that way too. And I've had a similar situation where you just, even what you said was like, I met this woman at the Starbucks and we sat and we talked and it was a nice conversation. But I knew the moment that we said goodbye, this was never going to be a friendship and we never spoke again. And that's the weirdest feeling in the world.

Terri Kellums (23:48.653)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Jennifer Grossi (24:12.249)
I actually have struggled with that because, you when you move to a new place and both you and I have done that in the last number of years, it's always like you want to kind of ground yourself in that community, whatever that community is. So what we discovered was that over our last four years with COVID and everything, we realized that our outside friendships have kind of not been as fruitful as maybe our online friendships have. Little side note right now, you and I,

have never met in person, but we have been friends, growing friends for four years. And that kind of friendship is an actual friendship. It's not the kind of, like, if I could meet you in person quickly and all things fell together, I would do it in a heartbeat.

Terri Kellums (24:43.349)
Never.

Terri Kellums (24:59.507)
absolutely. And it will happen at some point.

Jennifer Grossi (25:01.464)
It will, but it's never disturbed me that we've not met in person. In fact, we found ourselves kind of getting into this friendship. First of all, you and I met because you had this podcast, the same space that we are now reinventing. But when you came to me four years ago, I don't even know. You just sent me a DM and Instagram and it was like, hey, do you want to come and talk? It was really elegant. I'm butchering it right now.

Terri Kellums (25:05.354)
No, me either.

Terri Kellums (25:14.059)
Mm-hmm.

Jennifer Grossi (25:29.479)
You were very good about it. You're like, hey, I would like to have you come on my podcast. Would you be interested in come and talk about women, midlife, skincare, makeup, all those things? Yeah. Can I tell you first of all, I was so, so honored that you even like saw me and you were like, yeah, come on my podcast. I was like, come on your podcast. What the what? Okay, sure. So I did. I was shaking. I was nervous. You made me feel so at ease. It was such a fun time. I walked away from it like, oh man.

Terri Kellums (25:38.133)
Yeah.

Terri Kellums (25:43.978)
Terri Kellums (25:55.019)
No.

Jennifer Grossi (25:57.806)
totally do that again, not thinking we would ever do this. But that right there, I was like, I met somebody who's building a podcast, but I didn't see where that would go. And to be honest, you were the reason that we continued because I had a group of people already online in places with the people I worked with, who I was kind of socializing with, and that sort of filled that need because we all have a need. But then you

Terri Kellums (26:00.852)
Right?

Terri Kellums (26:18.601)
Hmm.

Terri Kellums (26:25.063)
Yeah, we're built to connect with other humans. That's how we were designed. Yeah.

Jennifer Grossi (26:28.94)
Yeah. But you were so good about it. You would reach out. You would reach out, you know, little things like we talked about hair. We talked about makeup. We talked, you know, you'd share things. Yeah. And you were so fun because I even, okay, so I went back on my phone and I text, like checked our text and I was like, I still, you think I still have all the texts that we, my gosh, I have all the texts. I cannot tell you how far I was swiping to get to the top. But I remember that there was a day when you wrote to me and said,

Terri Kellums (26:36.453)
Makeup

Jennifer Grossi (26:57.473)
our podcast is airing today. And I was like, my gosh, it's airing today. And so, you know, of course I went and listened to it at least three times. And then from there, we developed this thing where as I was scrolling back up and looking at all of our conversations, the first time that I realized that our friendship had made a turn wasn't even that long after the podcast had happened. It was like April 22nd. So we had met in like, I feel like it was

Terri Kellums (27:04.529)
Right.

Jennifer Grossi (27:26.434)
February, March, something like that. April 22nd, I sent a text to you and I said, can I run something by you? I need input. And you said yes. And then we got on the phone. And then I scrolled a little further and it wasn't much further. It was less than a month later, May 18th. Terri, text me. Can you chat? I need to run an idea by someone. And that is the thing that sent us catapulting through all the years.

Terri Kellums (27:28.744)
Yeah, that sounds right.

Jennifer Grossi (27:55.557)
towards, I believe, and this is what my side is, you tell me if you want to add to this, we became confidants for each other, we became cheerleaders for each other. I I saw texts from us where we spilled good news and we shared interesting facts and the other person was cheering the other person on. it just became, you became a friend that I could count on. And that was like the first piece of the puzzle to building a ride or die friendship. What do you think on your side?

Terri Kellums (28:10.383)
Hmm

Terri Kellums (28:23.526)
Yeah. So from my point of view, was like, so you caught my attention online because you were always on there talking about beauty tips and stuff. And I had noticed that, you know, things were starting to change. I was in that midlife mode and I was noticing things changing. You were talking about like mature women's skin and makeup and how we need to adjust things a little bit. And I was like, you know, I can't be the only one that needs to know this stuff. She needs to come on the podcast.

But you just were so easy to talk to and you have such a magnetic presence that I was a little like, she probably doesn't need another friend because obviously she has so many people already in her life. I kind of just thought, well, she can be someone that I lean towards for professional makeup advice in a sense, because I was on camera all the time and I did want my skin to look nice and I did want to project a professional image onto the camera.

I thought, well, she'll just be that person in my life that I can talk to about this kind of stuff. But you make it so easy. Like you just make it so easy for people to feel comfortable with you that I found myself like thinking, I want to talk to her about this. Like I want to talk to somebody fun. we did the whole, did we do a live where we made cocktails on air? That was so, no, I don't think so. Was he? He could have been.

Jennifer Grossi (29:40.27)
We did. We made cocktails. Wasn't Steven with us too? My husband. I feel like he came in. I'm pretty sure. I mean, when there's cocktails, Steven shows up no matter what, so.

Terri Kellums (29:48.547)
He could have been, he's so funny. Right, right. Yeah, so, you know, we've had some fun together. We've had some, you know, just lighthearted conversations, but there was something that you know, and it's that chemistry factor that we're talking about. It's something that makes you say, hmm, what else could this friendship offer the both of us? So I think, I forgot to put my phone on, do not disturb. So let me do that real quick before we get disturbed.

Jennifer Grossi (30:10.476)
It's true.

Terri Kellums (30:18.796)
the joys of being a podcaster, you know, we got to, okay, now it's on. I saw a little notification come through. So anyway, yeah, so it just, did, it led, one thing led to another. And, you know, I remember just kind of like tiptoeing into some conversations in the early days. Like I think I've not always been great at being vulnerable and that's why.

I can probably count on one hand, like the really, really close friendships I've had in my life where I've felt comfortable just really being myself. And so I think at first I would just sort of like put something out there just to see how you'd respond to it. And yeah. And then I thought, okay, she handled that well. Like I'm going to, I'm going to trust her a little bit more. And you know, what we, what we found out is, like we're both very pro-marriage women, which automatically

Jennifer Grossi (30:59.582)
Hahaha!

Jennifer Grossi (31:09.389)
There.

Terri Kellums (31:10.627)
bonds. That's because, you know, I think in my younger years, I think I didn't understand that if you're going to talk about your marriage problems, you should probably talk to them about the one that you're married with, you know, that you're married to. Because it does you no good to talk to everybody else about what you're upset with your husband about if you don't talk to him about it.

Jennifer Grossi (31:24.514)
Yeah?

Jennifer Grossi (31:31.447)
Right, right. Although, although caveat with that is that that is a part of what we discovered in those conversations that we could talk to each other and say, I'll never forget the day that you actually said to me, I am gonna tell you something. I'm mad at my husband, but I know you're not gonna judge me over the fact and you're not gonna hate him. And I was like, yeah, that's true. Actually I won't. And why do I feel that way? Because A, I believe in your marriage and

Terri Kellums (31:35.499)
Yeah. Yeah.

Terri Kellums (31:53.801)
Right, that's important.

Terri Kellums (32:00.596)
Right.

Jennifer Grossi (32:01.218)
even if I didn't, believe in the con, like the commitment that you have to build. And also because I had tested you and said, hey, I feel this way about Steven and this is my struggle. So that's another level of like where you have to be able to be having those kinds of conversations and your frankness allowed me to be more frank, et cetera, et cetera.

Terri Kellums (32:03.349)
Mm-hmm.

Terri Kellums (32:08.51)
Terri Kellums (32:22.716)
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, because I think that, you know, we do need a place as women. And my husband knows that I talk to certain girlfriends. He knows I don't go blabbing everywhere, but he knows there are certain girlfriends I will talk to because if we are going through something, he'll go, well, did you talk to Amanda about that? Did you talk to her about this? You know, and she's a marriage counselor too. So that helps when your best friend is a marriage counselor. But, um, you know, like he knows that there are going to be certain things that I will talk about, but there are also certain things that are sacred, you know? So.

Jennifer Grossi (32:38.691)
It does help.

Jennifer Grossi (32:49.623)
Yeah, for sure, for sure. There is a limit, there's a line, and that probably comes from just being in the marriage and you guys deciding what that is. Because I have a feeling that there are other people who... Look, if you're willing to tell your stuff on Facebook, like you're mad and you're angry, which we've all seen somebody who's done it, where they just go all out and tell all the things, then you're probably willing to not, you don't have very many, there's no bottom to your back. Yeah, that to me is like a really serious, serious factor in there.

Terri Kellums (32:53.76)
Mm-hmm.

Terri Kellums (33:03.776)
True. Yeah.

Terri Kellums (33:12.596)
Boundaries. No, yeah, no boundaries. Yeah, for sure.

Jennifer Grossi (33:19.187)
And you have respected mine, I've respected yours. I feel like that's probably something that has to be built into the friendship. You know, when we were getting ready for this, I think you have them. Do you have the stats that we were looking at for?

Terri Kellums (33:32.274)
I do. Well, I think it was, I didn't write them down, but I think it was 60%.

Jennifer Grossi (33:39.426)
There, well, so we were looking at, was it Pew Research? And they had done a study in 2023 about friendships and I was intrigued by that. Like, what the heck is that? Tell me more about that. You know what I found staggering about it? Was the 8 % of Americans that said they have no close friends. None. 8 % of people walking around have no close friends. Whereas it said that only 38 % report that they had five or more.

Terri Kellums (33:49.664)
Mm-mm.

Terri Kellums (33:57.502)
Yeah... Yeah...

Jennifer Grossi (34:05.866)
So it's still a small margin, but those people are super fortunate. They've got five or more. And then the other piece of that puzzle that fascinated me about it was the fact that the older we get, incrementally, it showed inside the study that we are more likely to have close friends. Now, close friends is the part that really stood out to me, but like it said like 30 to 49 in that age group is like 32 % of them have friends, like close friends. But when you get to 65 and older,

Terri Kellums (34:06.654)
Yeah.

Jennifer Grossi (34:35.33)
49 % of them say they have five or more close friends. Wait, what? How's that possible? So we have the capacity at this place. We're certainly not at 65 yet, but we're heading there, and Lord willing, and I feel like we have all the possibility to gain those friends and I want more, you know?

Terri Kellums (34:38.91)
Wow.

Terri Kellums (34:53.5)
Yeah, hey, I want to show you this video. I'm going to pull this video up real quick and show you.

Jennifer Grossi (34:56.075)
Okay.

Terri Kellums (35:02.108)
Okay, time out because that video is not gonna obviously play, but I'll stick it in here. And I did edit it pretty short and I don't know if you're gonna be able to hear this, but I wanna play the part that I saved pretty quick.

Terri Kellums (35:19.805)
I'm nice enough. I think I'm pretty funny. Don't get me wrong. I have lots of acquaintances. Wait, this the one? That's not the one. Sorry.

Jennifer Grossi (35:28.065)
No problem.

Terri Kellums (35:31.804)
44 years old and I don't have any friends. I'm nice enough. I never mind. I don't know where it is. I moved everything around way too much. But yes, I did start from there, but I cut out a lot of the stuff that just felt like filler and not like really important to the conversation. So I'll stick that in this appropriate spot. And I did these hand motions. So I'd see myself on the video. I'll stick it in right there.

Jennifer Grossi (35:38.273)
Did you start from there? From the 44 years old?

Jennifer Grossi (35:54.175)
Okay, okay. So wait, I thought you were gonna do another one. That's why I'm like, wait, you're talking about the girl that I was like the vulnerable one. you went there. Okay, so.

Terri Kellums (36:02.318)
Yeah, they're really vulnerable. Maybe I should just play it. Even though it's I trapped it up so we can both be kind of in that headspace.

text something funny or call to pick up my kids. I had thyroid cancer a couple of years ago and I didn't have a single person that I could call to talk about it with. I four kids, I have plenty of acquaintances, but I have never made like a solid connection. I have one friend from college who like we send memes back and forth. I don't know that we even have each other's phone numbers.

As an adult, I feel like it's so hard to make new friends. For a long time, I was in the haze of raising my kids and now my youngest is 13. I'm past the point of feeling sorry for myself. Now I'm just in problem solving mode. At this stage in my life, I don't know how to go out and meet new people. I feel like I missed the window. I don't really know why I'm sharing this. I think that I'm sharing this because I feel like surely I cannot be the only person at this stage in life.

that does not have any close relationships. I see you. Hopefully. Okay, Jennifer, when I first watched that video, I okay.

Jennifer Grossi (37:23.275)
Wait, wait, wait, wait, hold on. My perspective is let's introduce that video a little better because it went along with the stats.

Terri Kellums (37:33.806)
Yeah, when you were talking, felt like it was perfect in there.

Jennifer Grossi (37:36.533)
You're right, you're dead on. I didn't know that was where we're gonna go, but I'm glad you did. So let me go like tell you like how I found it. Okay. So with all those stats that I'm just talking about, what I found interesting and I always think this is like a God moment where I was scrolling through Instagram and I found this reel and I cannot tell you how it struck me, but it felt like arrows going through my soul. So I shared it with you. What was your response to it? Cause I know we're gonna share it with everybody.

Terri Kellums (37:39.427)
I didn't either.

Terri Kellums (37:51.866)
Mm-hmm.

Terri Kellums (38:05.273)
I don't cry easily and I'm not really like saying that because I'm proud of it, but I'm just setting the stage that I wanted to cry. I wanted to cry for her. I felt like, my gosh, how awful that you went through cancer and you had nobody. you know, that you have such a shallow surface relationship with your college friend that you're just at the point you don't even have each other's phone numbers. You're just sending each other memes. Like that's what friendship has been reduced to for this woman.

Jennifer Grossi (38:14.206)
Yeah, it goes.

Terri Kellums (38:34.252)
You know, when I think about my friendship with you and my friendship with my soul sister, Amanda, like, I can't imagine not having people that I don't, I can't reach out to or get comfort from or share exciting news or, you know, I just, can't imagine it. It was such a sad video.

Jennifer Grossi (38:51.848)
No, it genuinely is. Okay, hold on. I, I feel like what we just did was perfect, but I feel like we'd have to put me in front of the video and you after the video.

Terri Kellums (39:02.776)
Okay, I think I can do that. Yeah, I think I can do that.

Jennifer Grossi (39:03.53)
Does that make sense? Okay, so I'm gonna come in, share that piece. We'll time out for a second, right? And then you go, you'll respond. Okay, okay.

Terri Kellums (39:12.524)
the video in there and then I'll cut that piece out that I just said and okay so where does that leave us now?

Jennifer Grossi (39:20.895)
So gonna start. So from that place where all of these stats come from, I happen to be scrolling on Reels and I don't think it's by coincidence at all that I found this Reel because it was exactly speaking to where we're talking about today in friendships or lack thereof. And I'm gonna tell you, it broke my heart, the reality of what you're about to hear.

Terri Kellums (39:44.075)
Yeah, let's play it.

Terri Kellums (39:48.566)
Okay, so do want me to repeat that part over there already said or I just copy and paste it in?

Jennifer Grossi (39:52.157)
Yeah, we can you could probably cut it. you cut it? Okay. Did we have to do that?

Terri Kellums (39:55.104)
can cut it.

Terri Kellums (39:59.543)
it'll be fine. I think it'll be fine. It seems like it might be pretty easy to edit. So where do we pick up from there after I said, you know, I can't imagine not having those kind of friendships in my life.

Jennifer Grossi (40:09.309)
Yeah, I honestly can. I really, probably both can when you really think about the fact that there have been times when we haven't had those close friendships where we've been on a, I don't know, like an island. I feel like there's an island for a woman at some point in life where maybe, you know, it's interesting you were talking about being a mom and having a close friend during that time. I can honestly tell you that there was a very vacant, there was a very vacant area in that point where I could relate to somebody. I had my best friend.

Terri Kellums (40:21.301)
Mm-hmm.

Terri Kellums (40:30.09)
Mm-hmm.

Jennifer Grossi (40:38.971)
but we weren't in the same space at the same time, meaning we didn't have kids at the exact same time. It was different stages of life. And it just felt like this place where, you know, there was an avenue of things that we could talk about, but there was still that vacancy. And we all want the, we want to plug and play all the different places, words. And I feel like, okay, I have a lot of what I would call friends.

Terri Kellums (40:45.824)
Mm-hmm.

Terri Kellums (41:08.605)
Right.

Jennifer Grossi (41:09.768)
but it's the ones that you go nitty gritty toe to toe that are so significant that they help you form life. Does that sound right to you?

Terri Kellums (41:21.746)
Yeah. Yeah. And so I think, you know, if you followed any like self-help gurus, you would probably at one point hear them say like, don't, if it's a really true ride or die friend, you're not putting any masks on. There is no filter. There is no mask. There's no pretending. You're just able to be authentically yourself and you don't...

go away from a happy hour with your ride or die friend and the next morning say to yourself, my gosh, I wish I wouldn't have said that. I mean, you may wish you wouldn't have said something, but not for the reasons that you think. It's not because you don't think that the person received it or understands your heart. It's more because like, I don't know, sometimes

Jennifer Grossi (41:54.32)
Right, right, but that's developed.

Terri Kellums (42:10.566)
you get into a conversation with someone and you're just trying to dig yourself back out of it because you feel like you went too vulnerable. And maybe I'm just speaking for myself. In the past, I have felt like, my gosh, I let them see a little bit too much and I didn't close off my walls quick enough before I dug myself back out of that conversation. if you don't feel like there's any substance to the relationship,

Jennifer Grossi (42:26.695)
Yeah.

Jennifer Grossi (42:32.25)
my god, so true.

Terri Kellums (42:40.914)
Like I have friends who just really hate small talk, you know? And I've had this conversation where if there's no substance, if it's just a conversation for the small talk, you'd rather not have it at all. Like it doesn't, it's almost like if you had to pick quantity or quality, I would pick quality any day of the week.

Jennifer Grossi (43:00.887)
Any day of week. Okay, but you and I, this goes back to the idea of like having to, you have chemistry with a friend. These are the like, the little, I think like the stepping stones to figuring out whether or not you will have a ride or die person. And one of those being, can I spend time with this person because we have chemistry, but also at least 50 % of the time, do I walk away feeling more energized by our conversation? At least 50%. Like I don't think that's asking too much.

Terri Kellums (43:15.227)
Mm-hmm.

Terri Kellums (43:28.412)
Hmm? No.

Jennifer Grossi (43:30.193)
There's always gonna be conversations where we're a little bit drained because we've given a lot of ourselves. But then there's also the, are they on the same level as me? And I don't mean that like, hey, I'm on some special level. I mean, right, I just wanna be on the same page. I guess that's probably a better way to say it. I wanna be on the same page with a friend, with a girlfriend, where I can be, for me, and I believe for you because we've talked about this, authenticity is probably at the...

Terri Kellums (43:34.779)
Right.

Terri Kellums (43:43.556)
Yeah, like I'm better than you, not that way. Yeah.

Jennifer Grossi (43:59.741)
Like how authentic will you be? Will you really truly be yourself? Stepping stones.

Terri Kellums (44:00.814)
sure. Right. Right. So what would some red flags be? Do have any red flags that you're like, you're meeting somebody meeting someone newer and you're like, this is not going to work.

Jennifer Grossi (44:08.986)
Yeah, I do.

Jennifer Grossi (44:13.808)
Yes, absolutely. If somebody is happy to tell me about other people and gossip about somebody else, am instantly on the... Okay, there's another one. If I instantly, and I mean instantly feel chemistry between us, I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt, and I've practiced this theory for years, that within...

Terri Kellums (44:20.57)
oooohh... that's a big one!

Jennifer Grossi (44:43.164)
span of time we will not be very close. But if I don't necessarily know if I like you yet or if I don't know if we're gonna be friends and we just keep developing it there's a very good chance even sometimes if I don't like you right up front there's a very good chance that if I work with that friend eventually I'm gonna like that friend. My husband now believes my theory he actually does that with other people now he's like you know just had this conversation with somebody and I really really liked him.

So I'm probably not gonna like him for very long. my gosh, yeah, told you. It started in college, by the way. This was a thing I realized with my, well, all the different professors. That's the reason this showed up was because any professor that I liked right off the bat, you walk in and you're like, my gosh, I'm gonna love this class. By the end of the semester, I hated that semester and that professor. And if I didn't like the person right away, by the end I really liked him. Is that weird? It's weird.

Terri Kellums (45:40.719)
So I met this, I told him I came home the other day, I grocery shopping on Saturday, I come home and I tell Brian, said, I almost made gay best friend. Like I was this close to making a gay best friend. And he's like, what? He's like, where were you? I was like in the spice aisle at the grocery store. And I have these stories, like going to the grocery store is an event for me. I almost always have some kind of interesting story to come home and tell, but I'm like, he's like, yeah, okay, how did this one start? Why?

Jennifer Grossi (45:57.595)
Hahaha!

Terri Kellums (46:10.414)
why did you start talking to this person? He calls me the random stranger conversation starter or something like that. And he was like, I didn't start talking to him, he started talking to me. And I go, well, technically he was trying to talk to the other people, but they wouldn't talk to him. So I started talking to him. Yeah. And he goes, and what were you talking about? I'm like, well, he was looking for onion powder. And...

Jennifer Grossi (46:26.293)
You feel bad for the other people.

Terri Kellums (46:34.081)
He was telling me that he had some Kroger onion powder in his hand and he didn't feel great about buying it because he was imagining it had been sitting in that bottle for at least six months. And I said, can I tell you a secret? And he's like, yes. And we were like co-conspirating at this point. We were like leaning in and we were lowering our voices. And I said, you can make your own at home. How do you do that? Do you have an air fryer? You can dehydrate your own onions and then you can put them in like a little food processor coffee grinder and make, yeah, girl.

Jennifer Grossi (46:49.593)
You

Jennifer Grossi (47:01.532)
Thanks.

Terri Kellums (47:04.351)
And so he, right? That's what I said. And so he says, so my husband says to me, so we, me and the gay guy, and the conversation, we walk away both happy with our discovery. And, my husband says, well, how do know he was gay? And I go, well, how many men do know will stand in the aisle of the grocery store talking about making onion powder in their air fryer?

Jennifer Grossi (47:04.892)
I'd be your gay best friend if you told me.

Jennifer Grossi (47:28.005)
Good point. Good point.

Terri Kellums (47:29.866)
It was cute, but no, I can be like that. I can feel like, I could be friends with this guy because he was very, he wanted to have a conversation with somebody about spices. That is totally me. Like I want to have random conversations with people. So yeah, I mean, you can feel an instant connection with someone. Now who knows what would have happened? I've never had a gay best friend. I've wanted one for years. It's never happened.

Jennifer Grossi (47:44.271)
Yeah.

Jennifer Grossi (47:59.472)
Ha

Terri Kellums (47:59.787)
If anybody from our audience wants to apply for the position, know. Hello.

Jennifer Grossi (48:03.163)
Hello. That's your new motto. Your side gag is going to be that. You're podcaster plus trying to find your gay best friend.

Terri Kellums (48:14.231)
Yeah. There you go. There you go. was trying out new hairstylists a few years ago and I was with this younger girl and we just didn't have anything in common. And you know how hard it is to sit there and get your hair done for like hours without having some kind of conversation to pass the time. She was very non-communicative. She was just really just doing my hair and I'm really just sitting there. But there was a gay guy over to my left and him and his customer were having a grand old time.

And I told my husband, I wanted to be over there with him. I wanted to be having fun. Darn.

Jennifer Grossi (48:44.923)
I want to be in the fun group. Yeah, you figured it out. I honestly think that there is a lot to be said for the reason why we, well, let me just back up. Hold on. How do we lead to our seven?

Terri Kellums (48:49.789)
Yeah, I did want to be in the fun.

Terri Kellums (49:05.417)
Yeah, I feel like we need to figure out how we can start going into the end because we didn't really talk about that. Where are we?

Jennifer Grossi (49:13.528)
And are we going to share, we're at the seven actions that can build.

Terri Kellums (49:16.605)
Okay. Okay. I think that's where we need to head to next. Then let me see. Let me just look at the notes real quick and see if there's anything else.

Terri Kellums (49:29.043)
Yep. Yep. We didn't really talk about French challenging you. That's OK, though. We can always do that some other time. Can your friends challenge you? Do they always have to agree with you? Or can they challenge you? Yeah.

Jennifer Grossi (49:35.588)
We didn't talk about what? Friends what?

Jennifer Grossi (49:41.838)
We could do that under judgments. Like, because, you know, there is some truth. I was trying to go to that point when I was doing the notes on my own about just the idea that if there is no judgment, then are we really being authentic too? Because there has to be some reality. Like, I can't just always say to my friend who trusts me, you're right, you're right.

Terri Kellums (49:50.145)
huh.

Terri Kellums (49:53.595)
Okay.

Terri Kellums (50:04.976)
Yeah. Okay. Okay. So

Jennifer Grossi (50:09.188)
Do we want to cover them smoothly back to back? Meaning bouncing?

Terri Kellums (50:12.806)
Yeah, think so we decided we yeah, so we yeah, we can go back and forth and you can do number one, but we'll we'll definitely say, you know, we're gonna give you our seven actions to build ride or die friendship and then back and forth them. And then how do we start? How do we wrap up? We got to invite the audience to participate. And then what else do we need to do?

Jennifer Grossi (50:27.843)
Yeah.

Jennifer Grossi (50:36.354)
Meaning you're going to do the whole follow like, okay. And find us on Instagram and YouTube.

Terri Kellums (50:39.804)
Yep, yep, yep. Well.

Yep. Okay, so which one of these? Share your best, I really felt seen by my best friend moment below or poll, do you prefer chickens or spontaneous? Or we can always use those in our social media posts too.

Jennifer Grossi (51:00.599)
Yeah. Yeah, I say we, I say we, you want to call to action to have them comment? Is that what you're doing?

Terri Kellums (51:01.818)
Okay.

Terri Kellums (51:08.466)
Mm-hmm.

Jennifer Grossi (51:12.814)
call me action if you need to be if you're planning to apply for my gay best friend to be my gay

Terri Kellums (51:18.872)
No, but how about the red flag one? Like what is a red flag for you before we move on from the red flags? Like we want to know what our audience thinks. Comment below, let us know what a red flag for you is when a friendship is.

Jennifer Grossi (51:33.227)
Okay, okay, okay. So let's have you do that and then you go to the separate actions and then you want to do.

Terri Kellums (51:36.87)
Okay. So I'll do the red flag audience participation thing and then lead into the seven or you will. Okay, I'll do, okay, got it. Okay, Jennifer, I feel like we need to ask our audience, like what is a red flag for them? Like feel free. Yeah, I would too.

Jennifer Grossi (51:46.381)
Yeah, lead into the seven, you do number one, and then I'll go to number two.

Jennifer Grossi (51:56.983)
I would love to know the answer. And I bet that there's some red flags we've never even thought of, and that would make my day. So please share below.

Terri Kellums (52:01.99)
I'm sure. Yeah. So yeah, share below what a red flag has been for you. When did you know that the friendship was probably over or if it was a brand new friendship, when did you know it was never going to probably get off the ground? Let us know. And we'll share them in a future episode if we come up with some real doozies. That would be fun to revisit. All right. So as we

Jennifer Grossi (52:18.691)
How did you know? Yeah.

Jennifer Grossi (52:24.117)
my gosh, I love that idea. Love that idea.

Terri Kellums (52:29.636)
I'm trying to start to wrap up today's show. We did come up with a list of seven actions to build a ride or die friendship. So I'm gonna do number one, Jennifer. We came up with freedom. We feel like we need to be able to kind of come and go as you please. If I send you a text message, I shouldn't expect you to be sitting by your phone waiting for me to text you so that you can reply to me instantaneously.

Jennifer Grossi (52:55.266)
Right.

Terri Kellums (52:56.651)
It's, if I send you a text, it's because it's not an urgent thing. It's just a text that you can reply to when you have time. just kind of like that freedom, no expectations, no need for me to be, I don't have to be your bestie. You don't have to be my bestie. Like there's no, there's no levels here in our friendship and just the, know, like the freedom to change your mind.

Jennifer Grossi (53:01.826)
Bye!

Jennifer Grossi (53:20.29)
Yeah, I think honestly the freedom part is the thing that I probably consider the biggest gift a friend could give me because I know that I'm gonna be stuck with doing something else and then a text will come through and if that is, I need an instant response, then I'm in trouble as a friend automatically. And so that freedom part is like essential. We actually, when we were creating these seven,

Terri Kellums (53:28.068)
yeah.

Terri Kellums (53:39.136)
yeah!

Jennifer Grossi (53:45.014)
It was the idea that these things actually move to the next level. Like you literally build your ride or die on these seven ideas and actions that you can do with your friend or even look for in a friendship. And I think we just did it like built into it, but I think these are the important parts of having that authentic ride or die. The next one being, so we've got the freedom, but then when we're talking to each other, we want the no judgment. And we hit on that a little bit earlier.

Terri Kellums (54:00.951)
Yeah.

Terri Kellums (54:13.419)
Yeah, in that video. Yeah.

Jennifer Grossi (54:15.063)
Talking about having no judgment is like a very big deal because you probably have experienced at some point stating something that you felt was vulnerable or some piece of information that you were like, I have nobody else to tell and then getting that feeling that you are fully being judged in the moment and you feel like critical eyes are on you and that is pain city. I think by just listening, you brought me in as a really close friend because

Terri Kellums (54:30.627)
Great.

Terri Kellums (54:35.945)
Yes.

Jennifer Grossi (54:43.283)
your ears were the most important first step. And then there was no like, didn't give me sass. You didn't give me an attitude. You weren't like weirded out by me. It just was this nice place where I could go tell you a story. I can tell you about relationship things that I'm going through. You've actually helped me navigate through just being a no judgment person several scenarios in my life that needed some heavy duty lifting. And I was like,

Terri Kellums (54:47.167)
Right.

Terri Kellums (55:01.185)
Mm-hmm.

Jennifer Grossi (55:11.799)
God, I've got Terri to talk to you right now because no judge.

Terri Kellums (55:16.127)
Yeah, no judgments, but there also is a point that you reach in a really good ride or die friendship where you can challenge their thoughts. I would say what's coming to mind the most on that for me is when you're being totally ridiculous, not you, but in general, when you're being totally ridiculous and upset with your husband about something that you know two days from now, you're not going to be upset with him about.

like picking a dirty socks up off the floor or something like that, you know, and your friend has the balls or the courage to say to you, is that what's really bothering you right now? Or is it something else? You know, it's, it's, it's not judgment that you're mad about the socks. Cause I mean, dirty socks on the floor are disgusting, um, it's, know, it's really no judgment, Brian. It's really more about like, I want to challenge you because I don't really think that's what you're upset about. I care about you so much.

Jennifer Grossi (55:52.234)
Right. Right.

Jennifer Grossi (56:02.036)
No judgment,

Terri Kellums (56:10.858)
that if you really need to talk about what you're really upset about, I want to kind of push you a little bit so that you will talk about that with me. Give me the opportunity to be a sounding board for you. Don't rob me of that opportunity. Yeah.

Jennifer Grossi (56:13.632)
Yeah.

Jennifer Grossi (56:22.87)
For real, for real. It does help that you are a life coach and I fully got some free coaching along my life. It's a girlfriend guide anyway. I felt like a couple of my friends could be life coaches just because of the way that the conversations roll. I think that that also is number three on the list.

Terri Kellums (56:32.231)
Well, hey, what goes around comes around. I get it from my marriage counselor, but then you can get life coaching from me.

Terri Kellums (56:45.972)
Yeah.

Terri Kellums (56:51.431)
Yeah, it's great listening skills. know, what is it? How does that thing go? You have one mouth and two ears. You should do twice as much listening as you do talking. think, yeah, and I think that sometimes people listen to respond instead of listening for what people aren't saying. And I'm sorry, my sign is today. Excuse me. I think sometimes we're so busy waiting for the person to stop talking so that we can talk that

Jennifer Grossi (56:58.389)
Mm.

Jennifer Grossi (57:02.602)
That's great! What a great phrase!

Jennifer Grossi (57:20.533)
Mmm.

Terri Kellums (57:21.267)
we miss really important things that people are saying or that they're not saying. That's one of my favorite parts about being a life coach, the training that I received to listen for what's not being said more than what's being said sometimes. So great listening skills. I had to my spectacles on for a second because I thought I wrote something down here that I wanted to say. yeah, it's just being curious.

Jennifer Grossi (57:26.677)
Yeah.

Jennifer Grossi (57:34.154)
Yeah, yeah.

Terri Kellums (57:49.126)
If they're giving you something that you don't think is maybe authentically them, you might say, and you feel like it maybe is a rash decision, you could just say, well, you know, like what other options have you explored? It's just simply being curious. And that's one of my favorite things right now in life is just being like curious about things. Like what else might I not know about that? You what else can I learn? What else can we? And we do that by listening to people.

Jennifer Grossi (57:59.552)
Hmm

Yeah.

Jennifer Grossi (58:14.837)
Yeah.

Terri Kellums (58:18.949)
We can't possibly know everything, so we need to listen to what other people and people. love being around the older people and that's why the grocery store thing is such a funny thing between me and my husband because we do live in like a retirement type area and listening to people like I've come away from conversations like, my gosh, that man was just lonely. He just needed someone to tell that to, you know? Yeah.

Jennifer Grossi (58:38.402)
my gosh, why are we so alike in this area? I don't even understand. We have so many things that we're like, my gosh, you would think the same thing. That was one of them. Well, I mean, the part where you talked about the great listening is also, it leads to great questions. With you, I have always said you have some of the best questions and it's because of your fantastic listening skills. And like you said, the idea that A, you've been trained by it you know, to do life coaching, but also in the sense that you

Terri Kellums (58:45.933)
Mm-hmm.

Terri Kellums (58:53.863)
Great questions.

Jennifer Grossi (59:08.167)
I think naturally are an observer and you spend time like thinking about that. And I think that's one of the skills that people can learn. I think sometimes people go, I don't know if I could ask great questions. I don't think I've got that capacity. I don't know what to ask. Why would I know what to ask? And I think about this. So my son, one of my sons early on in his dating life actually said to me, mom, I'm dating this girl, but you know what? I really don't know what to ask her. I just like, we kind of run out of things to say. Like, I don't know what to say next. And I'm thinking to myself, really?

You run out of things to say. But then I run into our library and I grabbed this book and it was like a thousand and one questions, like great questions. And I'm like, take the book and start asking questions. And he was like, thanks mom. He has used that book now like forever asking questions. But I think the same thing inside a quality friendship can be said. You can Google anything these days. Questions to ask your husband to have good communication. Questions to ask your girlfriends. my gosh. There's like whole world.

Terri Kellums (59:59.098)
True. Yeah. Intimacy question, intimacy building questions. My husband, yeah, my husband is so good at this. He, he isn't, so if you ever do any kind of like personality, you know, type things like Enneagram or disc or anything, like we've both done ours and we know each other and we talk about it a lot. And one of his characteristics of his personality type is that he doesn't necessarily,

need to talk, but he doesn't want people to feel uncomfortable in a silent situation. So he asks really good questions. And he sort of has some like standard questions that he asks. And I only know that because I pay attention to him in social situations, you social settings, like a work event or something like that, where, you know, I can hear him talking and I just kind of smiled to myself because I know he asks a lot of the same questions, but he's genuine about it. And I've had people say to me,

Jennifer Grossi (01:00:36.405)
Ow.

Terri Kellums (01:00:56.729)
Your husband is such a good listener. And I'm like, yeah, I mean, he'd much rather listen than talk. So he just asks questions. Yeah, he just keeps asking questions to get people to open up and talk. So we talked about freedom. Yeah. I'm more of a talker. Like I'm more of a talker. in ours. And it's so funny as really.

Jennifer Grossi (01:01:04.99)
I think that's actually a very nice, nice place to be.

Jennifer Grossi (01:01:12.382)
So you both have that ability. I think that's pretty cool.

Jennifer Grossi (01:01:21.106)
disagree. You're such a good listener. Yes, you're a very good listener and a talker. That's a nice combination.

Terri Kellums (01:01:28.554)
Yeah, well thank you, that's very nice compliment. So we said freedom, no judgment, great listening skills, great questions, which all lead to trust, which we have talked about quite a bit. Like you can't, know, when we were talking about how we were kind of feeling each other out at the beginning of our budding friendship, you know, we had to know, we had to have that trust factor there before we could start sharing. The more vulnerable sides of us, the more intimate details. In fact, it has nothing really to do with trust so much as

Jennifer Grossi (01:01:36.552)
Yeah.

Terri Kellums (01:01:58.392)
just how our friendship has evolved. We were talking the other day and I revealed something to you that in four years has not come out yet about me. And I just, I'm like, well, I just don't like to like throw up all over people, you know, I'd rather take time and ease into it. And I think trust has a lot to do with that with in most relationships, like you wanna know you're safe. You wanna know that you're emotionally safe and that only comes in time with trust, trust building.

Jennifer Grossi (01:02:05.992)
Yeah.

Jennifer Grossi (01:02:18.77)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Terri Kellums (01:02:28.204)
I think, you know, I give trust freely, but if you break it, I don't give it back very easily. That's just how it's to be. Mm-hmm.

Jennifer Grossi (01:02:33.127)
that's good. That's very good. I agree with that. And I don't think I think the older I get, the more that I feel that way that there is a lack of if there's a lack of trust, if you've done something to destroy that trust, then I will back away. I always say it's backing away. It's the same as that the way that I feel about marriage in a way where if my husband and I get into a disagreement and something he says hurts me.

Terri Kellums (01:02:53.048)
Terri Kellums (01:02:58.229)
Mm-hmm.

Jennifer Grossi (01:03:01.719)
I tell him I'm like a flower and I will just do this. It takes a while for me to do this. It's that trust and it's that opening back up to be like, okay, I can be vulnerable with you and I can trust that you will not hurt me. Or I will trust that you've learned something out of the hurt thing that you just made me go through or something along those. Same for him, I believe. He feels the same. But it does, actually that is the number six on our list was vulnerability because

Terri Kellums (01:03:07.925)
hehe

Terri Kellums (01:03:17.247)
Go.

Terri Kellums (01:03:25.395)
Yeah.

Terri Kellums (01:03:29.684)
vulnerable. Yeah.

Jennifer Grossi (01:03:30.447)
once you've got the trust, then you have to be vulnerable with the other person in order to make things go deeper. In our friendship, I feel like the little piece that you revealed the other day, was like, my gosh, in my head, was like, my gosh, thank you for sharing that with me, because it made me feel like you went vulnerable with me, which means you trust that I'm not gonna go do something with that material.

Terri Kellums (01:03:49.813)
Yeah.

Terri Kellums (01:03:53.141)
Yeah, well, I was reading a book by Brene Brown years ago. Actually, I was listening to it in the car when I was on a road trip. And, you know, she said, if you can't be vulnerable with people, they never really get to see the real you and they can't really love you and be close to you if they don't know you. And you only really know somebody. I had a girlfriend once that said,

You would never know this particular thing. And I'm not going to say with this particular, I will at some point share with this particular thing is, but it's just so out of context right now. I'm not going to say it because I think it'll like interrupt the conversation, but you would never know this about you until you really let your guard down and someone gets to know you. And that's vulnerability, you know, like that's when you know, of these things about me. Um, that's when you know, I'm being vulnerable, like, like what I shared with you the other day. Like it's not that that's not.

known. mean, that's out there somewhere in the world. More people than you know that about me. there's my dog barking at the birds. It's just hard. It's hard to be vulnerable sometimes. So when you have that as part of your seven, I feel like it really does allow you to connect on a very deep emotional level and create level of intimacy in your friendship that is so valuable.

Jennifer Grossi (01:04:58.49)
Yeah.

Jennifer Grossi (01:05:12.58)
Yeah, because it leads to the fact that when I hear somebody get vulnerable, it tells me that it's probably the chances are that I could share in return. Doesn't always equate that way. There are some people who their vulnerabilities, but then they will not be safe.

Terri Kellums (01:05:34.077)
Right, right. Which is our last one, which is respect. I think respect is such a big thing. I would say it's one of my core values to be respected is amazing, but also to show respect. We have so many opportunities. can't even, I can't even. Charlie, no.

Jennifer Grossi (01:05:52.625)
Yeah, I'm going to say I'm going to just going to do it. I'm like, I can't.

Can you please use this piece right here as a lever?

Terri Kellums (01:06:04.434)
Charlie come come on See morning is when he's most active and he's more likely to do something like this But I really feel like morning is the best time for us to do this Because later in the yeah

Jennifer Grossi (01:06:19.003)
Well, I have to. I hear one of my kids just walked in. we're almost at that spot. Matt? Jack? Matt? Yeah. Okay. I'm still recording.

Thank you, Bob. I just heard you. didn't want you to think I didn't hear you. Vulnerability leads to respect is where we're at.

Terri Kellums (01:06:42.289)
Okay.

Jennifer Grossi (01:06:43.685)
You want to it, you want me to.

Terri Kellums (01:06:44.945)
don't even know if I have a really good way to verbalize how I feel about respect.

Jennifer Grossi (01:06:50.609)
Okay. Okay. I think with all the discussion that we've just been having about vulnerability, it leads me to the place where I know that I can talk to somebody else more than likely about, like, if you're vulnerable with me, then I'm thinking you're probably going to let me be vulnerable with you. And there's a chance that you won't be, you'll be trustworthy. So in being vulnerable and then you allowing, you know, we keep going through this cycle, there's all the freedom and then the no judgment and the great listening skills and great questions. then it builds trust and then we build more vulnerability.

Terri Kellums (01:07:10.267)
hehe

Jennifer Grossi (01:07:20.303)
and then it goes to respect. And then that respect part is huge for me. I think it's probably for you as well, where we just feel like I can respect you because I think in the process you've shown me that you respect me as well. It's just, and then that cycle is over and over over again until you just continue to compound into like a really good friendship.

Terri Kellums (01:07:21.775)
Respect.

Terri Kellums (01:07:28.781)
It is.

Terri Kellums (01:07:38.341)
Yeah, it just cycles. Yeah.

Well, I think, yeah, and I think respect is a core value for me. If I can't respect who you are as a person and I don't feel respected as a person, I'm not going to be able to be vulnerable or trust or, you know, so they all do. They all literally do feed into each other. And we can post this list. It will be in our show notes. It will be available if someone wants to refer back to it or.

Jennifer Grossi (01:07:59.877)
Right. It really is like a circle. Yeah.

Jennifer Grossi (01:08:08.294)
Yeah.

Terri Kellums (01:08:12.751)
just use it as a guide and see how they feel about these things. I invite our listeners to subscribe to our YouTube channel, to follow us on our Instagram account. All those things will be in the show notes as well. We have many more wonderful topics to bring to the podcast and share. We're looking so forward to building this community and sharing our hearts with you. We got some other like more fun, like potentially, how do I wanna say it?

Jennifer Grossi (01:08:16.454)
Yeah.

Jennifer Grossi (01:08:21.009)
Yeah.

Jennifer Grossi (01:08:38.075)
we do.

Terri Kellums (01:08:41.423)
What word would you use to talk about some of the topics?

Jennifer Grossi (01:08:43.531)
no, I'm thinking we're tackling some stuff that people will be like, hmm, about. And that's okay, we're happy to do that. I feel like we're midlife, we have a lot of things to say, but we have a lot of things to hear too. So we're not just interested in what we have to say. Leave your comments below. You got questions, you have comments, do it, leave it. We want to interact with you and we just want you to know you have two new friends. So that part is the best. Me too.

Terri Kellums (01:08:47.907)
Yeah.

Terri Kellums (01:09:01.795)
We do.

Yeah, definitely. All right, Jennifer, I enjoyed our time together so much today. Next week, I think we're talking about Midlife So make sure you come back and join us for Midlife See you next time.

Jennifer Grossi (01:09:16.079)
Okay.

are we, that the next one?

Terri Kellums (01:09:19.609)
Don't shut, wait a minute, don't shut down anything because we need to go back and do our moment, our lead-in moment. Where is it?

Jennifer Grossi (01:09:22.383)
I'm not, I'm not.

Jennifer Grossi (01:09:28.836)
What moment? Our lead in moment?

Terri Kellums (01:09:38.38)
Which one? I can't remember which one of us was going to say this. The lead in is. I thought I lost a ride or die, a diaphragm thought I lost a ride or die friend until I learned this, and it's going to be very dramatic. So we have to do some big facial expressions. Why is it so reconnecting? Hold on. Did you see my light turn off at some point? Yeah.

Jennifer Grossi (01:09:59.512)
I did. You pulled it off well. I saw you flinch barely.

Terri Kellums (01:10:04.084)
Okay, so you want to do it or you want me to?

You want to just follow my lead and make the facial expression? Are you a good actress?

Jennifer Grossi (01:10:12.664)
Thank

my life online.

Terri Kellums (01:10:19.124)
that's so true, my friend. Which one you want to do? You want to do the lead in? I think you should do the lead in.

Jennifer Grossi (01:10:21.784)
Okay. Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. If I thought I lost, how about if I, not if I lost, but I didn't think I'd have another ride or die until, is it until these seven actions? Is that what you're saying?

Terri Kellums (01:10:41.58)
Until I learned this. Until I learned this.

Jennifer Grossi (01:10:45.783)
Okay, I think, what is it? think I'm, hold on.

Jennifer Grossi (01:11:03.127)
I honestly thought there was no chance I'd have another ride or die friendship until I learned this.

Terri Kellums (01:11:15.371)
No, it was good. It was good. What else do we need? I think we got that. so.

Jennifer Grossi (01:11:20.281)
We have our disclosures at the end, but that's going to be a voiceover, right? Like the legal language.

Terri Kellums (01:11:24.314)
yeah, we got to figure that. Yeah, I wasn't sure if you wanted it to be a voice recorded thing or just language in our both. OK.

Jennifer Grossi (01:11:34.703)
I think both. I think both. I like to cover my ass in every possible position. And then I think, and then our introduction, I still have to work on the music portion of it, but I'm super stoked that we are doing this today because I feel like I feel, I feel good about it. I feel like it's gonna slice well. I feel like we're gonna end up with something solid as a launch. And I think that this is a great, I actually can see it now. That's what I'm trying to say.

Terri Kellums (01:11:51.476)
Good.

Terri Kellums (01:12:04.137)
Good.

Jennifer Grossi (01:12:04.591)
Okay, this is how we're gonna roll. And I think you said it will be easier. I'm like, okay, I get it. I get it. I love the concept. So are we doing authenticity next?

Terri Kellums (01:12:07.742)
This is how it rolls.

Yeah.

will be. I thought that's what we were doing.

Jennifer Grossi (01:12:18.157)
I think that that was what we were on this one. I don't have my notebook.

Terri Kellums (01:12:23.178)
Well, you said you wanted to change it to this, more like the friendship versus

Jennifer Grossi (01:12:28.626)
no, no, if it goes to that, then I was like, we'll go there. But otherwise, we just move to the next topic. So it's OK, because what if we just, why don't we just be generic for this? Because we're still rolling and we're not sure. Does that make sense? Or we can come back. It doesn't matter if we changed outfits or whatever. And we go, next time.

Terri Kellums (01:12:42.727)
Okay, yeah.

Terri Kellums (01:12:49.065)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Okay. Yeah, we'll do it that way. I saw a really good lead into a podcast this morning. I want to send it to you with Charlie Kirk. He was going to be on Bill Maier's podcast. And he did a little interesting clip at the beginning. So it would look like something like this. Let's just let's just play it out.

Jennifer Grossi (01:13:03.341)
yeah, yeah.

Terri Kellums (01:13:13.765)
On today's episode of the podcast, Jennifer and I talk about the seven actions to build a ride or die friendship. We share some really interesting details about how we became friends and then whatever. What would you say? What else do we talk about today?

Jennifer Grossi (01:13:30.891)
my gosh, I need to sit and think about that. Hold on, slow processor here.

Terri Kellums (01:13:45.777)
Let's start over.

Jennifer Grossi (01:13:47.842)
Okay, go ahead.

Terri Kellums (01:13:49.851)
On today's podcast, we had some very interesting conversation. talked about the seven actions to build. Shit. Beep beep blooper. I can't see. yeah. But the thing's going to be in my eyes. The ring. Seven actions to build a or die. On today's episode of the podcast, we had a great conversation. We were talking about the seven actions to build a ride or die friendship

Jennifer Grossi (01:13:58.22)
Just put it in front of you like that. Like put it up like that. Nobody's gonna know. where'd you your glasses?

Jennifer Grossi (01:14:19.085)
And we shared a lot of good stuff, little juicy tidbits about how we built this friendship and why we turned into ride or die friendships.

Terri Kellums (01:14:27.301)
Yeah, so make sure you join us each week on what day?

Jennifer Grossi (01:14:33.633)
We don't know. What every day we post. I have no idea.

Terri Kellums (01:14:33.926)
What day are we going to? Yeah, so we need to record something. We need to have a recording like that. OK.

Jennifer Grossi (01:14:39.947)
Yeah, I don't mind that.

We probably need a couple of mockups that we can print out for that because I really well with that. When I've got to print out, I know exactly where we're going. And if we were to say, here's that intro and that's how we want, or at the end where you want me to like record, okay, then I'm like, I'm in.

Terri Kellums (01:14:50.979)
Mm-hmm. And then.

Terri Kellums (01:14:57.209)
Yeah, and then.

Terri Kellums (01:15:02.969)
We can always, we can always like go back and record. We don't even have to have the same clothes on. We can always just go have a day where we just record intros for all six episodes.

Jennifer Grossi (01:15:07.745)
Okay.

Jennifer Grossi (01:15:12.885)
Okay, yeah, I like that idea. I'm good with that.

Terri Kellums (01:15:15.077)
And then did you decide if so for the thumbnails for So you're gonna have thumbnails for Instagram you have thumbnails for YouTube Are we gonna have a picture like me and Mandy is to do or you got something totally else in mind? We're just gonna keep the same thumbnail and change the title of the podcast like what did you decide about that?

Jennifer Grossi (01:15:24.866)
Yeah.

Jennifer Grossi (01:15:36.903)
I love the idea of you and I.

Terri Kellums (01:15:42.117)
Where'd you go? Where's your video?

Terri Kellums (01:15:48.292)
I can't hear you.

Terri Kellums (01:15:53.625)
What happened?

Terri Kellums (01:16:23.292)
What happened? What happened to our sound? I'm gonna push stop record. Yeah, leave it open. Yeah, leave it open. you go.

I am going to be so pissed I might say the F word.

My laptop shut down and that's the producer.

Win.